DISQUS

Rovin · 2 years ago

While individuals have bailed from California, like my friend Keemo, it should be pointed out that abandoning, (or ignoring) the Golden State and its financial situation will impact everyone in the nation. First a few annoying facts:

# 1 California Is the World's Sixth Largest Economy

# 2 California’s gross state product exceeds $1.2 trillion,
making it one of the world’s largest economies.

# 3 California accounts for 13 percent of the nation's output
and trails only Japan, Germany, England, and France.

#4 Our nation’s next largest state economy—New York—
is about 70 percent the size of California’s.

While it may be expedient to pretend that this is entirely the governors fault for what has transpired here under two decades of Democratic control, the reality is that if this state fails to rein in their spending and entitlement programs instead of raising taxes, (which the democrats have always advocated), the burden that will be put on the consumer will devastate California's economy. Understanding that the four points above will have ramifications across state lines, I would suggest that most all of you should have enormous concerns of what direction the state of California takes in the months ahead.

It was only the policies of the 33rd governor of California that put fiscal responsibility ahead of the socialist agenda of a democratic legislature that never met a spending program or a tax increase they didn't like. When Reagan cut into the budget across the board everyone screamed until his policies proved right that a lean government that put money into the consumer’s pockets let the market forces take hold. Unfortunately, it was not long after he left that the old ways of the tax and spend democrats ate away at this philosophy. Replacing the governor will do little to change these events and we should all look deeper into the roots of a problem that will affect all of us, no matter where you live.

jpmn · 2 years ago

Unfortunately, The Governator alone will get the boot. He deserves it but, the legislature deserves it every bit as much.

Unchecked liberalism always leads to busted budgets. Arnold should have known this and acted to keep it in check.

RKV · 2 years ago

Recall Arnold!

JeanneB · 2 years ago

Sadly, just another Republican "Things Could have been Different" story.

Arnold used to be the BEST at reminding people it's THEIR money and legislators deserve absolutely no credit for spending it recklessly.

Turns out, he's just the latest example of how modern government powers corrupt event he best intentions.

docjim505 · 2 years ago

I don't say that Ahhhnold doesn't need to go, but this caught my eye:

Cap'n Ed: ... he declared that he would work with the Democratic majority that had created the problem in the first place, and his popularity soared -- as did the red ink. [emphasis mine - dj505]

It would seem that Californians don't mind big spenders in Sacramento. Either that or they are too stupid to realize that its THEIR MONEY that's being spent in such record amounts. It may be that Ahhhnold and his democrat co-conspirators will simply ram through the taxes, a few Californians will grumble a bit, but otherwise all will be sweetness and light until the next "emergency". Why should Californians give the boot to a man who appears to be doing exactly what they want?

Christoph · 2 years ago

It would seem that Californians don't mind big spenders in Sacramento. Either that or they are too stupid to realize that its THEIR MONEY that's being spent in such record amounts.

I go with the second explanation.

hikerwoman · 2 years ago

Speaking from a small business owner (18 years) in California; operating a business in this state has become such a "high risk", it simply is no longer worth the headache. With insurance costs through the roof, leasing space at all time highs, hiring employees so cumbersome & risky, competition driving prfit margins down to record lows. Illegals taking business from legitimate businesses under the nose of government agencies is also at record highs. We are packing it in and leaving the state as soon as possible. 10% sales tax is coming soon; DMV fee's will triple; property taxes will double..... Goodbye can't come soon enough for me.

keemo · 2 years ago

California is the modern day example of Louisiana; another huge success taken down by Liberalism. Take a good look at San Francisco (a once great city) to see how this state has taken a sharp turn towards the radical left. Silicon Valley & the Aerospace Industry once fueled this huge economy. Most of those two industries have left the state due to the heavy burdens put on employers by the Democrat controlled government, and the out of control rising costs of state demanded insurance policies. Operating a business in California has become a living nightmare. State audits, EDD audits, & insurance audits are out of control; each audit cost the business owner thousands upon thousands. Millions of illegals working in the state, paying little or nothing into the system, but taking boat loads from the system. Sanctuary cities up and down the coast offering protection and services to all law breakers. Where is the tax revenue going to come from with most of the huge corporations having left the state? The middle class families are paying the biggest price. Most of my family remains in California; I pity them.

GarandFan · 2 years ago

When my wife retires in two years, we're outta here! The Democrats have ruined this state. Fiscal emergency? Then why the hell are they talking about a state-wide health plan that will cost (according to their math) 14 BILLION a year? The idiots in Sacramento are living in a world completely divorced from reality.

carol H · 2 years ago

But won't California taxing power have their hands in your retirement monies
through annual taxes regardless of where you might move. I recall some years
reading that just about any prior connection with the state means they want their
tax tribute. At one time I was offered a job in Colorado and had already taken an
early retirement from state job in Pa. Colorado in early 90s at least required all early retirees
to fork over 5% tax on their pensions. That was a deal breaker for me. Might
be worse now?

Count to 10 · 2 years ago

I may be wrong, but I think there is a line on the CA tax form that requires you to pay sales tax on anything bought online.

I voted for McClintock.

Corsair · 2 years ago

They are democrats, of course they are completely divorced from reality.

bayam · 2 years ago

California remains the 5th largest economy in the world. While most of the nation is turning into a service economy that produces next to nothing that other countries want to buy (think trade deficit), California is leading the way to the future.

Google and Apple will continue their global dominance, with Apple positioned to displace Sony as the top consumer electronics company. Silicon valley is turning to biotech as its next growth area, although computer and network technologies are on fire. Silicon valley remains a unique place in the world that every other developed country in the world has tried to reproduce with only limited success. You can't touch silicon valley. But keep up the whining.

As for San Francisco, it's still a great city. It's consistently picked as the best city in the world in international surveys and by travelers. If you prefer Kansas City over San Francisco, San Diego, and Los Angeles, then just don't come here. There are plenty of Indian families who will emigrate to California to accept engineering jobs and become millionaires after working 5-10 years at a company like Google, Cisco, or Adobe. You can give them all your pity.

MarkTheGreat · 2 years ago

I'm guessing that you have no idea what is involved in the service economy. It's a bit more than flipping burgers and saying "welcome to Wal-Mart".

MarkTheGreat · 2 years ago

I've had several good job offers from companies in California. I turned everyone of them down. I have no intention of returning to California. Primarily because of their tax and regulation climate.

Stillsaneafteralltheseyears · 2 years ago

Your post sure reminded me of what I did 7 years ago. I also read Keemo's post as he/she reacted to your remarks, and while not all of my children still live in California, 3 of them do. Yes, not only do I pity them, but I here about the problems with owning a home (high costs); the fact all that are married are families that require both husband and wife working, but the costs for child-care, transportation to and from work, and the continued increase in utilities, taxes, and over-all living expenses are causing them to start thinking about moving elsewhere.

My business was building custom-computers for the military and aerospace business. After spending 17 years in this environment, it gave me the 'inside track' as to where the money is coming from that builds a great deal of the Southern California economy.

Working on the early refinements that we now incorporate into the I-net technology, also allows me to know what has driven the growth and revenue into Northern California.

I met Bill gates before his name became a household word; worked with Boeing and the NUWES in Washington, and (again), the trends in the 1980's were being set; the West Coast is 'weighty' with income from our government in all areas of its programs.

Essentially, the west coast is for the rich - those that come in from foreign lands, are wealthy when they make entry; weathier within 2 years of their residency.

The strong influence of the west coast on the rest of this nation, can really impact the economy - plus or minus. I lived through a few earthquakes; some of those 'trembling experiences' translate into economic terms, and I don't think we're even close to seeing what kind of future 'rumblings' and upheavals will occur within the next 20 years.

All of your remarks are viable; well thought out, and insightful.

MarkTheGreat · 2 years ago

It's a little more complicated than that.
Those who vote, are generally not the people who are being taxed.
It's not hard to be popular when you shower the voters with other people's money.

william · 2 years ago

California is what you get when Democrats control everything.

I was born and raised in California. Lived there for my entire life (43 years) until this past October when I cashed out and took a job in Pittsburgh, Pa. I doubt that Pennsylvania is any better than California in terms of state politics, but at least the chunck of change I was able to escape California with will go a bit further in Pittsburgh.

keemo · 2 years ago

18 months ago, I sold my home in Rolling Hills, California; moved my family out of state and was widely criticized by most of my family and friends. Right about now, the whole lot of them are realizing the truths of what I told them early in 2006. Silicon Valley, along with a thriving Aerospace industry, fueled the ecenomy in California for many years. Much of those two industries have left California because of Liberalism; high taxes, very high cost of doing business do to high rents, inflated insurance premiums, and an infrastructure that has been crippled by the illegal invasion. Hundreds of millions of dollars are passed out to illegals in the form of cash for "day labor". This goes on daily right under the noses of the authorities. NO taxes are getting collected from these millions of cash dollars. The middle class is taking on a heavy burden, therefore the middleclass family man is relocating out of state as a pace that nearly matches that of Great Britain. The employer is at risk from the employee like never before; too much of a risk to have employees. The employee can fabricate a story, file a claim with EDD, and pay absolutely NO price what so ever when the EDD discovers the fabrication; meanwhile, the employer just paid out 50K to prove innocence.

Ass-backwards, 100% caused by Democrat control of the state. Like Louisiana, California is another State severly damaged by Democrats-Liberalism.

Stillsaneafteralltheseyears · 2 years ago

Beautifully said and 100% accurate!

carol H · 2 years ago

As usual the special interests had to be mollified. I also wonder how much illegal aliens cost taxpayers of California. In any case what's good for the goose is good for the gander and the Austrian Oak is and was a far cry from the actual conservative he ran against a few years back.
Perhaps fat boy uncle teddy had influence on Arnie? Afterall GW Bush has far more experience than the Governator and he too fell under the kiss Kennedy's butt spell despite being vilified and attacked at every turn by the liberal lion.

Ralf Goergens · 2 years ago

Note to Skynet:: Your T-800 models urgently need a firmware upgrade. Their cybernetic brains suffer from a bad bug in their floating point units.

the friendly grizzly · 2 years ago

I am so glad I am out of there! I left California in July of 2005; Tennessee is my new home. Funny... I got here, and within 2 weeks felt like I had come home. It has its faults (I live in the state Capitol, Nashville), but it is nice to drive on roads that are maintained. Nice to be with polite people. It's a whole different world here.

To anyone contemplating relocating from California, I BEG you to leave the state in your rear view mirror. Do NOT bring your voting record with you, your desire to solve every problem with another government handout. We have it bad enough already with stuff like TenCare, and a legislature that tried yoking us with an income tax. Please. If you want that sort of thing, stay there. Stay, like I wish all those New Yorkers, Massachusettsites, and others with collectivist mentalities had never moved to California in the 50s.

RonK · 2 years ago

I agree with you, look at washington state, a lot of people moved there a few years ago and transformed it into california north

Ari Tai · 2 years ago

I figure it's even worse than this. Gas tax revenues in CA should be up $2-4B over expected given $3+ gasoline. Anyone have the real numbers? Plus tax revenues are up over projections, iirc. Call it a $20B miss.

MikeD · 2 years ago

The most humorous part of this post is the seeming surprise at what has transpired. Gray Davis was a disaster but simply did what Democrats always do. Arnold was going to be the "silver bullet" solution but turned out to have no spine when the voters opted for delusion and denial instead of any kind of meaningful solution. The great state of California may simply collapse economically as fiscal incompetence by pandering politicians and crooks kills the Golden Goose sometime down the road. More and more people like hikerwoman will bail out and more and more people with no concept of economics or self responsibility will express outrage. The spectacle will be amusing for those of us with no dog in the fight.

Original Pechanga · 2 years ago

$14 BILLION in red ink. And Arnold is grasping at straws. Currently, he is trying to keep the voters of California from voting on expanding tribal gaming in CA. There are 4 tribes that the Gov negotiated compact that will give them 3 times the machines. This isn't what CA's people wanted.
The Tribes commercials are touting $9 BILLION to the state! They don't mention that it's over 23 year period and that's ONLY if every slot makes as much money 24/7 as they do right now during peak periods. AND they forget to mention that the TRIBES get to determine the net win with no oversite. Man, does MONEY talk in California. The heads of the Senate and House are under investigation and the money they are getting is STAGGERING.
We need cuts and yes, more taxes, because only 35,000 people pay the majority of income taxes in CA. That's a problem in a 32,000,000 population.
My blog has details as to why some tribes should not get expanded gaming.
California need a new Governor, and more importantly, we need the term limits passed.

Original Pechanga · 2 years ago

Additionally, the best thing that Arnold can do for California is to MAKE more MOVIES! When he quit making movies, he cost the state of CA $700,000 in lost income tax revenues. That's what he paid the year before he became Gov, after Terminator 4. That's about what 10,000 median wage taxpayers would pay.
Ridiculous, but true.

Jerry · 2 years ago

In November 2006, we had five bond proposals and four tax proposals on the ballot. All of the proposals that borrowed money to pay for themselves passed; all of the proposals that added new taxes failed. California voters won’t support new taxes, but they also won’t support reduced spending. What that means, I don't know. If Schwarzenegger's emergency measures include increased taxes, I expect to see a recall. But if his emergency measures include reduced spending, I expect to see a recall, too.

Nickess · 2 years ago

DocJim,

You haven't accurately characterized all Californians--not me--but, sadly, you seem to have caught the majority of them ded center.

CarolH, Several years ago Congress enacted a law generally precluding states like California from taxing expatriot pensions.

Nickess

Oregon Pub · 2 years ago

He is safe. The guy has teflon for skin. He can blame Bush for all his woes and California voters will forgive him as he and libs raise taxes. As long as he can blame Bush he will get a free ride in California.

NahnCee · 2 years ago

So Arnold personally is incompetent because:

1. The Democrats have over-spent themselves in California just like they're doing in DC;

2. We're supporting gazillions of illegal aliens who have come over the Mexican border and in through our ports and plopped down here;

3. We've had some major wild fires which, unlike New Orleans, I haven't heard that we're trying to get the Feds to pay for.

I don't think Arnold is incompetent. I'm sort of wondering if the people who are feeding him budget numbers are retired ex-CIA who used to work on statistics for Iraq and Iran and give them to the White House. Because you just know that bureaucratic numbers crunchers who are registered Democrats are never ever wrong, and have never been known to lie about anything.

For those of you clamoring how stupid we are to be living in California, I'll just murmur quietly "sour grapes", and note that WE haven't been having any blizzards the last few weeks. How smart do you have to be to live somewhere in the darkness without electricity or heat for several weeks each year, or to drive on "well-maintained" roads lined with salt that eat the undercarriages of your cars out.

After watching the last round of debates in Iowa last week, I've decided "not so much" on the respect we're supposed to give downhome flyover country. But hey, if you want to kick Arnold and California for being wildly successful, we can take it, just like the wildly successful United States of America can take it when a wildly flailing UN is taking potshots.

carol H · 2 years ago

I'm sure that California has its virtues. Mudslides, earthquakes, forest fires, riots, illegal aliens, high taxes and housing costs might be some reasons for californication to other nearby states. The Calif. ex-pats then drive up prices in Montana, idaho, etc. No doubt same thing happens when the moonbats from Taxachusetts fled high taxes there to the eden of New hampshire, where of course they can change that state into another socialist republic like Mass., Va. and Md., to name a few.
Yes, rust belt states are great for using excessive salt on roads. And I don't miss the Philly area surekill expressway. Haven't kept up with that, but I-95 in S. Fla. is always under construction.
The bad thing here is insurance companies raping the consumer for hurricane coverage. That and all the New Yorkers with a bad attitude.

keemo · 2 years ago

My wife and I have worked in the construction industry for most of our adult lives; I'm a commercial plumbing contractor & my wife is an Architect. Most of our friends that have left California (or are in the process of leaving) are also in the same industry; Engineers and Architects mostly, and are also very Conservative by nature. I don't know of many Liberals leaving the state, but I also don't pay much attention as to what & where Liberals are hanging out. All I know for sure is that I became really sick and tired of a Liberal agenda getting driven down my kids throats in public schools; sick and tired of watching the "political correctness" ideology fuel law suits; sick and tired of watching morals and principles getting shredded on our streets and in our parks; sick to my stomach when my 3rd grader came home and told us of his lessons on how to put a condom on a cucumber, and his newly found awareness of female organs.

I lived in Rolling Hills, California most of my adult life. What a beautiful place to live. My wife and I both enjoyed success with our respective businesses, which allowed us to live in this little piece of heaven. The weather was the best, as were the people we surrounded ourselves with. We left California for many reasons, the weather was not one of them. We didn't want our kids to get stuck in a place where they stood very little chance of owning property and raising their families in a "like" environment as to the one they were raised in. I have no resentment for Californians; my issues are with the politicians and the widespread policies that have evolved under the control of Liberals.

Family values are much more important to me than dealing with a more drastic climate. Taking my sons to a movie and having men "making out with men" in plain view; well, these are direct results of Liberalism. What people choose to do in the privacy of their own home is none of my business and I have no issues with that. What people do while out in public is my business; problem is, this type of behavior has become acceptable in the "politically correct" environment that has become California. Conservative minded people are leaving California by the herds. Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, Montana, Florida; these are the states my friends have chosen mostly due to the nature of the people and the ability to earn a living with their respective trades. Tough times lie ahead, but hopefully Californians will have had enough of Liberal rule by the time this reality sinks in, and get rid of the politicians that share responsibility for having made the decisions responsible for all of the damages.

Cave Bear · 2 years ago

Sorry NahnCee, but I'm not seeing any "sour grapes" here. I've been to California several times in the past 15 years, both on business and to visit relatives I have there, and when it comes to the "respect" we are supposed to give "California", to paraphrase you, my conclusion is "not much".

In no particular order, the place is overpriced, overtaxed, overcrowded, and overregulated, and it's no surprise that people are finally getting a bellyful and leaving.

No, you don't have blizzards, but you do have lots of power outages because your fellow Californians won't allow any more power plants to be built, so you have to buy power from out-of-state at inflated prices and it's never enough. And let's not forget the earthquakes, mudslides, wildfires, riots, etc, that you DO have in California.

No, you all are going to keep voting yourselves bread and circuses from the state treasury until until your whole financial house of cards collapses. And then you will demand that us lowlifes in Flyover Country bail your moronic backsides out.

exhelodrvr · 2 years ago

It has been three years since there have been any power outages where I work or where I live. You are significantly exaggerating on the frequency.

NahnCee · 2 years ago

Isn't the basic problem that flyover country isn't rich enough to afford to be Californian (or New Yorkian)? Nor, are I say it, smart enough.

Why on earth would we ever demand a bunch of farmer's who are ALREADY receiving millions in Federal subsidies bail us out. It would make more sense to do what the Clintons, Jimmy Carter and other pol's in DC are doing, and ask for money from Saudi Arabia and China.

I keep seeing thundering herds of rich Chinese, Iranians and Russians spending lots of money on Rodeo Drive and elsewhere, and have to wonder where the got the money in the first place. If ARnold could just figure out how to enact a finder's tax on unexplained wealth brought in from other countries, all problems caused by Democrats who can't count would be solved.

MarkTheGreat · 2 years ago

It's so sad. How desperation to feel good about ones self, almost always turns into loathing of everyone else.

runawayyyy · 2 years ago

So you think the answer is higher taxes as well? No wonder you prefer california's fiscal irresponsibility to flyover country. I left in 1994 as it was obvious to me even then where california was headed. I was right and I'm financially better off for it.

Stillsaneafteralltheseyears · 2 years ago

Boy, you two really make some valid points for 'both side'. Since I was born in the cold-country; lived in California for 20 years, and now enjoy 7 years of living in the desert, I can see the value in all your remarks!

My dad used to say the common phrase: "We choose our own poison". Then again, we often say another man's (fill in your choice of a positive word), is another man's (again, fill in your choice of a not so positive word).

Bottom line: I determine it's a good thing we are all unique and different in our ideas of what is great (for us); what is right (for us), and with this large land offering many choices of climate; religions, career opportunities - jobs, and the means to live side-by-side with our own personal goals able to be met if we put forth the effort, it's good not everyone wants to swelter in the summer desert heat, or shiver through the frigid winters.

I love all the seasons; love this country and all that nature here provides for us with its beauty - just don't like the way parts of this country can live in such poverty and be devoid of the basic needs, while others enjoy a decadent life-style that simply isn't needed.

Ideally, it wouldn't be a choice of feast or famine, but a steady diet so all could reach their maximum potential, and enjoy not just the American Dream, but enjoy the brief time they spend on this planet

I'll keep on reading; you two have really sparked qutie an exchange of viewpoints!

unclesmrgol · 2 years ago

Well, as a Californian, I sure do admire the weather we've been having, but weather isn't everything. Why isn't Google building new infrastructure in California? Why are the aerospace firms relocating to Virginia?

Could California's tax structure and costs of living have anything to do with it?

I could buy a house twice as nice as the one I have here in another state and still have enough to buy a new car every year until I die with the remainder (so much for the salt-on-the-road argument). I came from a place with four seasons, and I can certainly go back if I need to.

And I will. The embryonic stem cell research initiative is making sure of that. How can I retire in a state whose electorate gave loans to baby killers? When that $6B comes due, I won't be paying -- some poor lardhead liberal who bought my place will be paying the dues for the junk science California thought would same them.

Papa Ray · 2 years ago

While we all know that Presidents, Governers, Mayors really have no power to speak of. Lets go ahead and blame them instead of their respective governing bodies.

You know, like us men get blamed for everything, even though we don't control all that much.

But, lets not put the blame on the womenfolk...no, no...

The most powerful President/Governer/Mayor really has not that much real world pull, unless he can figure out how to blackmail those that do.

Anybody got the goods on those that do spend the money, needs to step forward.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

fearless leader · 2 years ago

It's funny that you mention Nevada and its budget. There was a shortfall there as well, and now the governor and the legislature want to cut 8% from the state's system of higher education. Needless to say, the proposal has everyone quite concerned, including myself (being a polisci grad student in Reno).

Stillsaneafteralltheseyears · 2 years ago

That one single sentence is absolutely 'dead-on', in my opinion. You mention ...'unless he can figure out how to blackmail those that do' - WELL SAID!

It's insurance companies; banks, corporations of substantial size that really 'control' and call the shots - whether they are U.S.-based, or based in another part of the world.

Our 'elected officials' are but figure-heads; often (sad to say) 'puppets', and have to bow to the demands of not only those powerful 'financial entities', but to the results of public polling, and voices of those who congregate and take obvious, and strong steps towards what they believe needs to be improved/changed/eliminated, etc.

When one lives in a time that 'life' can be seriously 'snuffed out' in a swift attack, we need to remember that there's not much meaning in a 'super-power', other than to be (also) 'super-targeted' by the enemy.

Fortunately, we all are now focused on the climate changes; something that no one on this planet can escape. Possibly if we find a common 'threat' to the world, we might find some common ground to which we could begin to build something that lends itself to thinking beyond our own individual lives and view-points, and realize that those we 'appear' to be in control, aren't (or else they would actually be able to control).

I enjoyed Papa Ray's remarks!

lexhamfox · 2 years ago

California remains a great place to live and work. The state still is a net contributor to the national economy. California is far from being like Louisiana as much as many of you would fantasize that it is.

Here are some statistics...

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparecat.jsp?...
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266....

Jerry touches on the real reasons for the crisis.

Enjoy the snow and rain today elsewhere in the US. I earn enough to enjoy California. After having some great food (the rest of you eat trash regularly) I am going to walk over the hill and have a glass of wine and walk along the beach.

MSimon · 2 years ago

California remains a great place to live and work.

For how long?

You can eat your seed corn and appear prosperous - for a while.

My guess is that when things get so bad that you can't stand it any more you will have to bail at fire sale prices.

Leaving before every one else figures out what is happening is a wise move. Economically.

You want a name for it? "The California Bubble".

Stillsaneafteralltheseyears · 2 years ago

Let's see - we just came back from California after a month at the beach. We ate at a number of 'posh' restaurants, and the food has clearly deteriorated from what it was 20 years ago when I lived there.

We also finished up a visit to the mid-West to visit family; back east to also visit family, and the food was fresh, well-prepared, and priced much more reasonably. We saw the beauty of the changing seasons - the small towns with smiling faces, etc. and to 'have that glass of wine' is really no big deal since we order our 'choice imported wines' over the I-net.

I'd suggest your smug and pompous retort is indicative of those who live in California and think the rest of the country doesn't offer as much in the way of a quality life-style. Your 'plastic' brain probably matches up nicely with the 'plastic' you carry in your pocket. I'm surprised you got off your cellular phone long enough to post anything. I guess I wasn't 'nice', but I conclude you deserve a clip side the head for saying "the rest of you eat trash regularly". Shame on you - that wasn't fair, or accurate - you need to watch the REAL HOUSE-WIVES OF ORANGE COUNTY and see if you're not hidden in the scenery somewhere.

I lived in Cota de Caza; got out of there shortly after I realized what a bunch of vain, self-centered 'junkies' lived there....a gated community that hides from being served a subpoena more conveniently than most I know. As Ann Landers once wrote: "Scum and Cream float to the top"........and you're definitely floating.

SwabJockey05 · 2 years ago

No Shipmates. You have it all wrong. It's not that Socialism is "bad" or "doesn't work". It's that it hasn't really been tried. When we have Socialism fully and completely "enforced"...that's when all will be well with the world.

exhelodrvr · 2 years ago

That's true. Every time it looks like it's getting close to succeeding, those damn humans get in the way again!!

PD Quig · 2 years ago

Karlifornia is just the canary in the coal mine. When the tax eaters outnumber the tax payers, they vote more money for themselves. Once the tipping point is reached, the momentum builds. The feedback loop ensures that legislators see no merit in restraining spending. They get re-elected to spend.

My native state has passed the point of no return. Once my son graduates from college, we're outta here. Rather than pity those left behind, I will actively root for California to keel over in its Marxist cage...to become a object lesson for the rest of the country. Like Mexico, we will visit from time to time, averting our eyes from the festering poverty and lamenting the collapsed infrastructure. Like Mexico, the government will have created a set of irreversible social trends that destroyed the economy and discouraged the most productive and mobile citizens.

As for those who would excuse Arnold and saddle the legislature with the blame, I remind you that his veto pen has been as missing in action as Bush's was during his first term. No, Arnold gets a big share of the blame for what has happened here since he was elected.

He's a jerk.

NahnCee · 2 years ago

Like Mexico, we will visit from time to time, averting our eyes from the festering poverty and lamenting the collapsed infrastructure...

How is California any worse on festering poverty and collapsed infrastructure than New York?

furious · 2 years ago

While we're apportioning blame, don't forget the benefits commitments Gray Davis made to the state employees' pension funds, based on straight-line revenue assumptions pre-dot.com bust.

Oh, and the 40% of the state budget mandated to education by voter-endorsed inititiatives.

Entitlement receipients and the Eduacracy get theirs, with escalators, while the rest of state commitments get theirs through appropriations, with no way to pay for it except through ruinous borrowing and beggaring tax increases.

Family and I de-camped to No. Texas from San Mateo Co. about two years ago. We'll deal with the summer heat and less-charming subdivision, but we'll also get to keep 9-10% of our income and pay 1/4 the vehicle registration fee (oh, and $100/sq ft. for a home not requiring $50K rehab because the previous owner could only afford payments), thank you very much.

Oh, and they're actually BUILDING public schools here rather than closing/consolidating and where they remain open cutting athletic, arts/music, and JROTC programs.

TheStruggler · 2 years ago

Next time maybe they should vote for the porn star.....or Gary coleman....or Bigfoot.

Stillsaneafteralltheseyears · 2 years ago

......or not vote at all. Hmmmm - now that would be 'vedddddy interesting'. Liked your comment.

Ann · 2 years ago

Don't forget the 3 BILLION dollars worth of bonds which are heading for stem cell research. All allocated by a referendum which passed a few years ago, and which Schwarzenegger wanted.

Those 3 billion worth of foolishly borrowed money is going to make it hard for the state to borrow for more important reasons.

TheYell · 2 years ago

"How can any responsible Governor get budget deficits so wrong in such a short period of time? "

Because property values did not climb as predicted. They are falling. As with the dot.com boom, the State built a spending and borrowing scheme on a myth.

As much as we rightly blame the Democrats and Ahnuld, who have real power, there is a clear lesson here for the national GOP.
While the state GOP certainly does have fiscal conservatives, the state GOP wants it known they are just one faction among a Big Tent. If a district seems hell-bent on electing a fat spender and a big regulator, that's who the GOP puts up. "Electability" has sapped our strength--example: Arnold.
Consequently, the open failure of the Democrat agenda does not really provide traction for a conservative policy mandate or a partisan sweep. It is seen as the personal failure of this or that incumbent--if a different "moderate" were elected it would have worked!--example: Arnold.
And where the Democrats have the sense to withdraw their own incumbent for a new liberal, the GOP has no advantage at all.

Mrs. Davis · 2 years ago

I am not up to date on the current fiasco having left 3 years ago, but California's recurring financial crises are generally due to revenue shortfalls as a result of over reliance on the personal income tax. What Schwartzenegger did was ride the recovery in the California economy. No doubt the state lived large on capital gains from people, especially speculators flipping their houses until the market crashed. Then the state's income tax revenue crashed as well. As the real estate debacle develops, California's revenue problem will probably worsen.

California's real problem is over reliance on a volatile income tax. When times are good, they are very good indeed. And the socialist legislators of all parties cannot resist the temptation to spend as though there will be no tomorrow. But tomorrow does come and California can't react quickly enough, either by raising other taxes or cutting the now profligate spending.

Stillsaneafteralltheseyears · 2 years ago

Another point on the 'volatile income tax' should be made. Droves of people run to become 'self-employed' - work on a contract basis, and that REDUCES their obligation to pay state income tax because they can REDUCE their net income with write-offs that often aren't even valid. By the time the state or IRS 'audit' the thousands that take this approach to avoid paying any tax (or a minimal amount), it's years after the fact.

The more and more individuals seek to avoid paying their tax obligation, the less California can count on revenue from the 'income tax'. If they raise the income tax, MORE people either decide to leave (that doesn't get California any incoming $$$), or they drop off the pay-roll, and (again) become contractors BACK TO THE COMPANY THEY LEFT.

During the 20 years I had my business in So. California, I lost count of the people who simply couldn't afford to deal with the high costs; they quit their jobs, and were taken back on a 1099 basis to the very same corporation they'd been working for. The common title used was 'Consultant'. I'd bet California has more 'consultants' than just about any other state in the nation.

I'm guessing the big 'computer in the sky' is plugged into the current trends, and they're tabulating the results so they can try to figure out an answer for the Californians.

Further trouble is when those who live in this lovely state as I did, start getting 'impressed' with themselves; have to 'spend' - for WANTS, rather than their NEEDS, and off they go driving up credit card debt, and over-spending because they live in the land of the sun. The vain sport tans so they can go back to their tiny town in Ohio during the winter and show off the 'good life' to those that are shivering. If many Californians can't pay MORE than what something is worth, they think what they're buying isn't worth anything.

One woman I knew was a dog-groomer who was reasonably priced. Over time this person saw another friend prosper in the same line of service. When the two of them met for lunch, they shared information about their fees. The one who was prospering found she HAD TO CHARGE MORE, before the rich patrons would stop by - coo and fawn over how lovely their darling critter looked, and then would plop a big tip in her hand to boot! So, the other lady (both are friends of mine), POSTED A NEW FEE SCHEDULE THAT WAS DOUBLE WHAT SHE'D CHARGED, and like magic - she's now doing extremely well. That example gives you a clue as to the mind-set of many residents of California.

To me, the quality of 'life' in California has an element of 'illusion'. If we don't travel and live in other parts of this country, we could get 'stuck' with this illusion, and never realize just how nice it can be in virtually every state (starting with our state of mind).

Your post certainly had merit, and seems dead-on in its accuracy.

ErikZ · 2 years ago

Makes sense to me.

Why fight the Democrats over every program? Give them everything they ask for and when the budget is run completely into the ground, take emergency powers and start making enormous cuts. The complete lack of cash in the bank will give him all the power and authority he needs to run things they way he wants.

After all, he tried it their way.

Allison · 2 years ago

Honestly, there is no way to fix CA. Schwarzenegger is no more incompetent than Davis or those before. He is completely and totally at the mercy of a Democratic legislature which will make no difficult decisions, spending outrageously at every turn. And it's not merely at the state level, though the bilking of the state is impressive. Look at the cities, too. San Diego is bankrupt due to the same kind of bilking: promising the unions that they could have their money now and everyone would face the music on what it cost later. By then, the politicians in power would hae left.

Everyone with a brain left CA for somewhere with lower taxes. Everyone who could left while the housing market was golden and took their winnings and went somewhere where those winnings could pay for a future. Any business owner knows they are pushed and prodded from every direction.

So who's left? Those who want services, and those who want more services. So everyone wants their district, their city, their locale to get a break. And no one wants to pay for it.

Now, Arnold does deserve some of the blame, of course. He pretended it would all be better, that the tax revenue from the housing boom would last forever. Yup, uh huh. No one in CA wants to face reality. Fine.

some day, CalPERS will fail. Won't that be funny.

test · 2 years ago

California's economy is detaching from the rest of the US, and converging with that of Mexico. More and more of the voting base will be low-skilled Mexicans, voting in more and more socialism and leftism. Businesses will leave.

All this is good news for AZ, NV, and OR. Those places will boom for decades to come, due to the exodus of the economically productive from CA.

Stillsaneafteralltheseyears · 2 years ago

Boy do you have that one 'bagged'!!! We live in Nevada; can't believe the 'boom'. We know a number of Californians who are buying up property in Arizona (Bullhead City; Fort Mohave, Kingman, and Lake Havasu for example). Henderson 'boomed', over these past 9 years, and it's still pushing itself into the mountains. Casinos are going up - hotels; condos, and friends I have in Oregon have told us about the 'exodus' from California into their state.

Nevada doesn't have a state tax; their gaming and tourist industry is strong enough to allow (so far) to derive the needed revenue from these areas, rather than implement a state tax. They feel that people often gamble MORE than they'd pay for state taxes (smart way to grab the money when we all 'volunteer' to pay, rather than have it yanked from us).

I think we found Nevada to be a state where 'self-impression and airs' aren't dominate in the personalities of the majority of residents. We lived in New York; they can do 'airs' very well. California is pretty darned good at being infatuated with themselves. This no-nonsense state enjoys excellent food; offers interesting and fun entertainment, and isn't scouting the communities to find ways to part people from their money.

Many parts of Nevada still have smaller towns; communities are active, and the schools seem to focus solidly on teaching rather than partying (or taking a week off in the winter for Ski season as all the teachers in California did when we lived there and my children were in school).

One individual told me they can now enjoy a smaller class size (she claims it's almost like getting a private school education without paying for it); she moved from California for the SOLE REASON of getting a better education for her 2 youngest children.

People in Nevada don't seem bent on having new cars; high-cost and fancy clothing, and all the 'trappings' that many areas of our country often focus on. No doubt the fact it's so hot 4 or 5 months a year in some parts, means no one really wants to put on any jewelry; or 'layer' up with fancy duds. The desert has a way of 'humbling' a person; it's not easy to deal with the heat and we learn very quickly who's boss (Mother Nature).

We were included in those fire that took place in October; what an experience, and an eye-opening situation to be in. After we were evacuated (we were only visiting for the month), we saw some pretty shaken people who'd (earlier in the week) been eating at a restaurant where we'd also gone to eat. Those same people that had been partying in high style, were now somber, and obviously shaken. What more is to come that will 'humble' those in California that seem 'above' the rest of the citizens, probably will play out in the next 10 years (or less). If/when it does hit millions hard, at least they can start over with an attitude of stability and reason rather than the greed and wants they now often have. Essentially, they'll have their heads on straight after taking such a thumping!

For us in Nevada? We hope we don't wind up inheriting the clogged high-ways and smog that might travel right behind those moving in our direction - it's not fun to be the 'goal' of a floundering mass who're trying to find a place to start again. Nevertheless, since we did this 7 years ago when we saw the difficulties ahead, we can't be critical - just welcome them to the relief we now enjoy.

JPH · 2 years ago

I've traveled all over the country, and still wouldn't want to live any place except here in California.

Having said that, I think there's a basdic misconception about the political culture here. More specifically, about how the electorate in general behaves.

The legislature here is completely in the tank for particular interest groups. At the moment, the two most powerful seem to be the Indian gambling tribes and the public employee unions. The first wants to divvy up the state into unregulated gambling territories -- like the mobs running separate numbers operations in Chicago. The second wants loads of benefits including early and generous retirement. Given their druthers, the legislature would deliver all it could to those groups.

But we also have an initiative process here. And it's a radical, wild card element in all this. Sure the electorate can willfully bamboozle itself into passing garbage like the stem cell research bonds. But it's also liable to pass something radically anti-tax or budget limiting along the lines of Proposition 13 back in 1978.

Sure it was 30 years ago, but Proposition 13 passed after the entire political establishment came out against it. And in the face of dire warnings of fiscal disaster.

My guess is that this "crisis" won't really be resolved the backlash against it plays itself out through the initiative process. That may not be for three or four years, but it's virtually guaranteed to happen.

MarkJ · 2 years ago

My cunning plan:

Buy what's left of the Berlin Wall from Germany and then use it as a foundation for a massive "Freedom Wall" around California. Once this is completed (using imported illegal immigrant labor of course!), hire former East German border guards ("Doing the jobs Americans won't do!") to man this new engineering wonder and ensure that no Californians can escape from their "paradise."

I further propose a huge sign be posted atop the Freedom Wall, toward the California side, stating, in multiple languages, "YOU CREATED YOUR MESS. NOW WALLOW IN IT."

Mwalimu_Daudi · 2 years ago

The meltdown of Schwarzenegger should serve as a lesson for Republicans who think that the path to peace and prosperity is to turn the GOP into the Democrat-Lite Party.

For a time it seemed to work. He was the MSM's poster child of a "decent" Republican, meaning he did exactly what the MSM and their Democrat pets told him to do. Now he will become the scapegoat for disaster that resulted from that obedience.

I don't buy the excuses that some are offering on Schwarzenegger's behalf. Sure - the Democrat-controlled legislature is a major culprit. But Ahnald did nothing - absolutely nothing - to help himself. He has become a Golden State version of George W. Bush.

But that last statement is unfair - to Bush. W at least has discovered his veto pen, and can Schwarzenegger boast of successfully repelling Islamofascism?

inmypajamas · 2 years ago

My husband and I had a chance to move to California in 1998 at the height of the dot.com boom. We chose to stay put in Texas, even though I was born and raised in southern CA, because of the lousy school systems where we would be living and the horrible specter of living with people like Nahncee and lexhamfox, whose insufferable arrogance and presumption of superiority is unfortunately too common in CA. We live in twice the house, pay no state income tax, our children attend wonderful schools and our neighbors are down-to-earth, friendly people. And I love the heat and the sunshine. My brother did move back for a quite a while but is in Colorado now after tiring of the expense and the excessive gay PDA (he lived in San Francisco). I myself will never move back.

Ned R. · 2 years ago

About that 'excessive gay PDA' that you and Keemo were complaining about -- seems to me both of you never stopped to think that perhaps someone who is gay might have slightly tired of excessive straight PDA by now in turn. But perhaps you can confine that to the privacy of your own homes. Fair IS fair, after all.

Bob Smith · 2 years ago

Arnold showed that like most people in his former profession, he's in it for adulation and approval. Big spending liberal policies get media approval in CA, so that's what he went for. If he really believed in the more conservative policies embodied in the failed referenda, one defeat wouldn't have stopped him. He would be constantly pushing them even after defeat. No, he showed himself to be just another Hollywood liberal.

keemo · 2 years ago

This comes from the San Diego Tribune:

Meanwhile, spending has grown under Schwarzenegger at a rate faster than under Davis. Tax revenue from a surging economy allowed general fund spending to increase from $79 billion in Schwarzenegger's first budget. The current budget signed by the governor in August, two months late, has a $102 billion general fund with a reserve of $4 billion.

Hill, the legislative analyst, estimated last month that the budget now has a $1.9 billion deficit. At the time, she predicted the budget gap next year would be $10 billion.

And some state officials said this week that the estimated shortfall next year has jumped to $14 billion in a general fund that would spend $111 billion unless changes are made.

A slowing economy, hit by the housing slump, is producing less tax revenue than expected, and some budget accounting maneuvers have unraveled.

Hill has suggested a potential midyear cut of $400 million from schools, whose funding is above the Proposition 98 guarantee. Before signing off on the idea, Ducheny said, lawmakers may need assurances that schools have not yet spent the money.

“If there is any opportunity where clearly there is no harm because they haven't spent the money, then I think that is something we have to consider – as much as we don't like it,” Ducheny said.

That's right folks, take funds from "schools" and give it to illegals; "take from the rich and give to the poor" mentality at work once again. Redistribution of wealth tweaked by modern day politicians.

SDN · 2 years ago

And Arnold doesn't even have Bush's excuse of having to buy the votes of enough Copperheads and RINOs to fight the war against our enemies.

BurfordHolly · 2 years ago

Darned Hollywood Republicans. Do you really want Thompson?

red · 2 years ago

Yes.

Harry · 2 years ago

I'm an ex-Californian-----lived there from 1987 to late 2002-----and I miss so much about that state. The magnificence of the Sierras along Highway 395, the Mojave on a winter day, the seals at La Jolla, the Trail of the Giants in Sequoia national Forest. . . . . . . all are reasons why California should be heaven on Earth. Sadly, too many Californians genuinely think government services are "free" and you can impose endless tax and regulatory burdens on business without consequences. I started my own business in California back in 1990, but one would have to be insane to do that now.

I'm now living near Austin, Texas. I miss California, but at least Texas has no state income tax and people here don't get upset at the notion of someone making a profit.

George · 2 years ago

Unfortunately Socialism, like the Terminator character, keeps coming back. The margin of victory or defeat of creeping Socialism is very small. A small change in election results here and there, a few missed vetos, and the size of government ratchets up. California's problems are our problems. We citizens can't wait for pandering politicians to do the right thing. We need to scare them into it. A volume of angry phone calls large enough to crater the Senate phone system killed "immigration reform". We need similar outrage against out of control spending. Call your elected representatives frequently and complain loudly. Vote against all bond issues on general principle. Make strategic protest votes in the many uncontested elections, throwing votes to long-shot primary opponents and the occasional Libertarian instead of not voting.

MarkTheGreat · 2 years ago

I'm guessing that this is how Arnie plans to get California to meet his new greenhouse gas targets. By chasing all of the producers out of the state.

California politicians are one of the best things to ever happen to the surrounding states.

SteveA · 2 years ago

Basic problem is that the legislative districts are drawn so as to eliminate competition in the general election. IIRC, only one district (out of 120-odd) has changed party hands in the last two elections. This means that the only competition is in the primary, between rabid and more-rabid partisans. This means that no one in the legislature, once elected, has any motivation to compromise, look ahead, or do anything for the good of the state.

To his credit, Ah-nold pushed a redistricting reform initiative a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, it was only one of four initiatives he was pushing at the same time, and a couple of the others made the establishment/unions very angry. So they pushed back, and all four went down. And Ah-nold, after that, capitulated and started building up his own personal popularity again by abandoning fiscal discipline.

California has a steeply "progressive" income tax, which means that a small percentage of the people are paying most of the taxes. This makes the revenue stream very bumpy and unpredictable. It also means that the people who pay the taxes are far outnumbered by the people who consume them. This is a "positive feedback" loop that ends, one way or another, in disaster.

My ex is a native and will never leave. To be part of my kids' lives, I have to stay close to them. If it weren't for them, I'd already be gone.

dmore · 2 years ago

So, will there be consideration of going after the Proposition 71 Stem Cell Funding. Isn't that thing worth about 300 Million a year.

Colorado resident · 2 years ago

Ditto's. I was also offered a $130K job in Thousand oaks and decided to take a $100K job in Colorado. Best choice I could have made. Cost of living, quality of life and having a 3600 SF house for $320K, vice a 1500 SF rat hole in SoCal costing $800K. Then throw insurance, earthquake insurance, and 1% Realestate tax on top of it and you are paying over $3,000 a month just to own a house. If you don't make at least $150K a year you are below the overty line in California. I wish the people of California luck with your bleek future

SouthernBoy · 2 years ago

California is a joke. What is the next legislation..."No Farting Zones". I cannot pay me enough to move to California..