Captain's Quarters Comments - Latest Comments in Hillary On Her Last Legs

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

philwynk — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:36:28 -0000

No, I'm not sorry at all. Thanks for filling me in.

I sympathize with the McCain problem, being a conservative and a Thompson fan myself. I searched my soul rather deeply, finally took a trip to CPAC to hash my ideas out with some other conservatives, and finally decided I would rather pull the lever for McCain than for a liberal Democrat. I invite you to read my wrestlings over the matter here, here,and here on my blog; you can also click on the "John McCain" category and read my misgivings about the man.

Regarding Obama: I'm not convinced he's of completely sound moral character. I think he's a pretty ordinary politician, who's capable of doing what needs to be done in order to get elected. You might want to read some stuff I put on my blog about him, or some things Jeff Berkowitz has said about Obama's track record over at Public Affairs. Berkowitz seems to have the best nitty-gritty information about Obama in action. He (Obama) sounds like a cagey operator who is capable of quietly stabbing an ally in order to please a more powerful constituency. He is not a wholesome, optimistic, straight-shooter at his core like Reagan was.

However, it's pretty clear he's not from the same slime pool the Clintons rose out of. So at least we're spared that.

I can't understand your concern about race relations. If Condi Rice, Michael Steele, Clarence Thomas, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Spike Lee, et al aren't sufficient to heal race relations, in your mind, how will a black President do it? The mere fact that the Democrats are nominating a black man for President should help some -- the blacks have been put down by the Democrats long enough, it's about time they got some respect in their party. But let me tell you, I lived in Philadelphia for 13 years, and when John Street got elected Mayor there, it did not help race relations, it hurt them. He was overheard once saying "We've got control now," speaking of the black brothers, and then one of his closest allies got indicted by the FBI for a deeply corrupt "pay for play" scam, shaking down bidders for city jobs. So I'm pretty skeptical about voting for racial reasons. I don't think it addresses much of anything.

The next President is going to appoint 2 Supreme Court justices, replacing two of the most liberal judges on the Court. If even one of them is a strict constructionist, we'll have a majority of judges who vote with the Constitution for the first time in my lifetime. This, above all things, persuades me to vote for McCain, even though he's Democrat lite. Besides that, I'd rather have a President who agrees with me 50% of the time than one who agrees with me 10% of the time.

Have a great evening, and thanks for playing.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

galynn — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:14:28 -0000

If there is anything emotional in my leaning toward Obama at this point in the election cycle, it is a rabid anti-Hillary framework. The only way the Republicans can be guaranteed to get my vote is if Hillary is on the Dem ticket.

I'll try to clarify what is prompting me to switch sides this year as long as you realize that my thinking is not likely to be very reflective of most other people, and that I am not set in my thinking (I still can be convinced to change my mind). I also want to stress that I am sincerely interested in figuring out what Obama's appeal is beyond simply dismissing it as just 'so much rhetoric.' I have more faith in American voters than to dismiss this current passion for Obama as completely unthinking. To find a way to recapture the interest of voters who are not firmly entrenched in one camp or the other, I think it would be wise to give them more credit. But hey, that's just me.

Anyway, my support for Obama has a couple of different prongs.

PRONG #1: There is not a true Conservative left in the race to support. I started as a Fred Thompson fan. Once he was gone, Romney was the closest thing to a true Conservative left. Now he is gone, and with McCain IMHO we do not have a true Conservative. At best he is a wishy-washy conservative, which IMHO was Bush's (43) greatest fault. And, having Bush (41) stand up to shout that McCain is a conservative is not exactly the kind of endorsement I'd want if I was trying to convince people that I am a true Conservative.

PRONG #2: IMHO Obama is a True Believer with sound moral character. The last President we had who was a moral True Believer was Ronald Reagan. Prior to him -- FDR. True Believers embrace a complete philosophy/rationale that guides decisions and policy choices. In my chosen occupation (psychology), every great advancement was made by the True Believers. And when the True Believers worked with clients, they were effective; it mattered not whether the theories behind their methods were correct. What made the difference was that they Truely Believed in what they advocated. Somehow that made it work. Reagan was a Great President because he not only was the Great Communicator, but also because he was a moral True Believer.

From what I can tell so far, Obama is an effective communicator AND he Truely Believes that the principles guiding his policy positions are correct. They may or may not lead to policies that will bring this country forward. I'm willing to risk it based on what I know at this point. He also comes across as having moral character. Give me additional information, and that risk I'm willing to take today might not look so good.

PRONG #3: Given the hostility of the Hard Left toward Amerika, there is a part of me that wants to let them have what they've been screaming for just so that the rest of the voters can see what failed policies they are. (I know. This contradicts #2 above. But you wanted to know...)

Finally, PRONG #4: I truely believe that if Obama is elected President, that act alone will do incredible things to heal race relations in this country. I think our country desperately needs that. And if #3 above is true, we'll only have to sacrifice 4 years because the next President would be a True Believer Conservative after 4 years of failed Socialist policies.

Are you sorry you asked?

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Old Texas Turkey — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:59:09 -0000

I hear the teamsters are endorsing Obama. thats gonna be tough for someone looking to carry OH and PA by a sizable margin.

Game over for the co-presidency, methinks.

To highlight a previous poster, there will be plenty of conservatives like me asking for a democratic ballot here in Texas to keep Will Klinter out of the vicintity of the Oval Office again. Count on it.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

JonPrichard — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:38:58 -0000

Interesting remarks.

First, Obama is quite a bit MORE liberal than Carter (near as I can tell). And I don't think this country has elected anyone so Liberal since, well, perhaps never. The point is, I don't think an Obama presidency would mirror Carter's due to the nature of the men themselves. I remember well the carter years as well as his ascension to the presidency. Yes I was a teenager but I've always been a political geek that way.

Carter ran as an 'honest' man from Plains. He was neither charismatic nor inspirational. That he barely beat Ford, another bland guy, is testament to Carter's lack of charisma. Carter was elected, in essence, to REPAIR the relationship between the People and the government. I think Obama stands clear in the iconoclastic mode, to dear down the harsh partisan divisions that have grown increasingly divisive in tone and extra-constitutional in practice.

When Clinton came into office he blew in with change too but his was the 'third way' schtick. The Clinton way was all about triangulation and wedge issues...pleasing everybody and nobody all at once. Pretty weak tea for a change agent. And, as it is Clinton was not transformational. Neither was Carter. Obama, for good or bad will probably be a transformational president (providing he survives a full term, as transformational figures tend to attract dangerous enemies).

As for your advice about investing one's self in local politics...well, always have, probably always will but I must say its been frustrating at times. Not because candidates I've worked for lost but that they generally win and then go to Washington and change. The '94 Republicans did that and GW Bush (whom I worked tirelessly as a precinct captain for two cycles, gave the max money to and supported in every way possible) disappointed me in many ways (though I still love the man and think he's a great president).

In truth I doubt I'd vote for Obama in the end. If i can get the sense that McCain will fight hard against Washington going forward I might actually be happy to pull the lever for him.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

okonkolo — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:14:26 -0000

A very thoughtful post that I suspect reflects the thinking of many voters.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

okonkolo — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:13:47 -0000

A big part of the message is change from George Bush, who remains stuck at 30% approval. That is going to be hard for McCain to embrace, and even if he did it would strike everyone as fake.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Del_Dolemonte — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:40:41 -0000

The news reports out of Hawaii were wild-in my old home town of Kailua just across the mountains from Honolulu, "more than 1000 people stood in two separate lines that snaked around the pool, gym and baseball fields. ..." and elsewhere, "The caucus at the Kapaa Neighborhood Center on Kauai was so busy that voters caused a half-mile-long traffic jam.".

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Del_Dolemonte — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:37:36 -0000

When I see her feet sticking out from underneath the house, I'll believe it.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Del_Dolemonte — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:33:21 -0000

Until his death a year or so ago, the dean of American historians was Arthur Schlesinger, who compared Dubyah's invasion of Iraq to the actions of the Imperial Japanese Navy in December of 1941.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Del_Dolemonte — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:30:57 -0000

Bush's legacy won't be known for at least 30 years, because the only historians qualified to write an unbiased account of his Presidency haven't been born yet. There current crop of "historians" all suffer from BDS.

The same goes for Bil Clinton's legacy-my guess is that Bill will be treated very harshly by history, once the current crop of historians are gone.

It will be interesting to see what Americans tell the public opinion polls next year as Bush leaves office what his Presidency will most be remembered for. In the case of Clinton, Americans by a huge margin in 2001 said his Presidency would only be remembered for a blue dress, not anything he actually accomplished while in office.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Del_Dolemonte — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:24:20 -0000

She's ENTITLED to the nomination.

Besides, it's been common knowledge since the 1990s that not all of those purloined FBI files were of Republicans.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

ChenZhen — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:21:06 -0000

It isn't just the plagiarism, there's been a whole series of desperate straw-grasping going on lately, from her and her loyal blogospheric supporters. That sexism charge from Big Tent Democrat, for example, was absolutely laughable. It's just making it worse it would seem.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

philwynk — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:20:18 -0000

An Obama victory would completely upset the apple cart. I find that an attractive notion. Iconoclastic and Libertarian.

Only, it would not. Obama is pure liberalism, the farthest left of the American variety. What you can expect from an Obama presidency is the same, government-solves-all approaches to every problem, just as they've been proposed by Democrats all along.

If you're wondering what that would look like, find something middle-of-the-road about the Carter administration and read about it (I'm assuming you weren't aware during his presidency; if you were, forgiveme). He was elected as an outsider during a time of national distrust of the organs of government, as Obama hopes to be. He was so inept that even with a Congress dominated by his own party, he failed to initiate anything of note, aside from getting a measure passed to require US companies to use the metric system instead of English measure (Reagan repealed it, and we all heaved a sign of relief).

If you want a change in Washington politics, why not invest yourself in local and state elections, which tend to produce the next crop of national candidates? Find local candidates who would favor term limits or earmark and rider reforms, get them elected, and effect real, long-term change. Or, take a look at Newt Gingrich's American Solutions Initiative, which suggests a raft of proposals that would have support from both sides of the aisle? Either one would be better than voting for a hard leftist.

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

philwynk — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:05:20 -0000

Not that I disagree with your assessment of Obama, but do you really think McCain is going to take the tack of exposing Obama as a hard leftist? That would be unlike him, and I don't expect him to do it. If he does, it will be through shills, not directly.

I do disagree with you about qualifications, though. If qualifications mattered, neither of the front-runners in the Democratic primaries would even be in the race. Obama is about to prove that Chance, the gardener can be elected President. (If you don't recognize the reference, treat yourself to Jerzy Kosinski's fine little novel, "Being There." Or see the movie starring Peter Sellers, only be forewarned, it literally takes less time to read the book than to watch the movie.)

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

philwynk — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:00:21 -0000

Some of us would rather the GOP hand her the humiliating defeat, rather than Barak Obama. The reason we'd prefer it that way is that McCain would probably beat Ms. Clinton, but probably will not beat Obama.

Plus, there's a little schadenfreude working here; thanks to the Democrats, the Clintons polluted the entire nation for 8 years, so we're hoping she stays in the running long enough to do a thorough job polluting the Democratic party. It's only just, and serves them right.

Trust me, we've not forgotten the 90s.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

NoDonkey — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:39:45 -0000

She's not quitting without a fight:

Allies of Hillary Clinton plan an expensive, stealth campaign to buttress her standing in the must-win states of Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania.

They're canvassing Clinton donors for pledges of up to $100,000 in the hope of raising at least $10M by the end of next week. The money will be placed in the account of a political committee organized under section 527 of the tax code.
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/20...

Any damage she can do to Obama will pay in dividends to the Republicans.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

krm — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:32:43 -0000

Carter was the candidate of fear and weakness - not security. Not to say that the result won't go Obama's way.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

philwynk — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:07:13 -0000

Since I don't know precisely what you are responding to, I can only talk in generalities, and only about perceptions. Perhaps you can fill me in on what's prompting you to switch sides this year.

The 21st century so far has been a very unsettling time, containing two very serious economic “bubble bursts,” massive auditing frauds, destruction of the World Trade Center, periodic uncovering of terror cells operating within the country, gasoline and food skyrocketing to unheard-of prices, war heroes exposed as frauds, and a war which we’re told was unnecessary, among a number of other things. A common denominator of all these events is “things are not as good as they seem.”

Given the near-universal distress and uneasiness this has produced, somebody who looks clean, smart, educated, and calm, saying “We’re going to change things and make them better,” has a natural, emotional appeal that most of us have to think to resist. An uncomfortable number of independent voters will not see through the Obama Scrim of Hope, mostly because they very badly don’t want to. Things have been bad. We want them to be better.

The Obama campaign is being smart by being general. No matter what anybody says, they want to run against the Bush administration, which is unpopular. Without actually saying it, Obama is basically saying "Bush ruined things, and we're the Other Guys." You may not be thinking exactly that, but by being unspecific, Obama includes your feelings.

By running as "I'm Not Bush," McCain can avoid a lot of the tar that Obama's trying to smear on him.

Again, I don't know how much President Bush is in your own, specific reasoning (or, if he is, how much you're aware of it), so I don't know if this affects you or not. But please fill me in.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

patrickneid — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:02:29 -0000

as I said over a month ago

"Like Dracula, until I see wooden stakes pinning them to the ground I don't trust any polls or primaries in regards to predictions about the Clinton's."

I'm at least starting to see the stake!

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

unclesmrgol — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:00:54 -0000

The education levels tend to be lower, which has been where Hillary has performed best.

That says a bit about the morals of the liberal intelligentsia, but it doesn't say much about their smarts. Maybe Barack is about to talk about more than just Change(TM) or Hope(TM). When they hear the bill for these, will they bite?

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

BD — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:01:51 -0000

Don't fall for the hype; McCain can beat Obama.

It's not that Obama is an "empty suit." It's that the guy wearing the suit is a hard-core leftist who also happens to be dangerously ill-prepared to fight America's enemies. Obama can be exposed as a wolf (leftist) in sheep's clothing (inspiring speaker).

Don't be fooled by the hype: Obama only looks like a political messiah because his opponent is the queen of political cynicism. Of course he looks idealistic and inspirational -- compared to HER! McCain won't afford him such a favorable contrast. Johnny Mac may not be much of a speaker, I'll grant you; but he is inspiring, authentic, and beyond reproach in the eyes of the public.

Obama has a lot going for him, but I don't think he can get to finish line solely on the strength of his oratorical skills. Laugh if you will, but we are not a completely unsophisticated people. Issues matter. Qualifications matter.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Bogey — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:23 -0000

she has bigger problems in Texas than Ohio.

I say she loses Texas, maybe ekes out Ohio.

which still means she's toast.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Bogey — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:44:35 -0000

calves too.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

Bogey — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:44:20 -0000

ankles actually. ankles.

those are ankles of Achilles.
or Hercules.

Re: Hillary On Her Last Legs

ClydeS — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:43:07 -0000

Apparently you're not old enough to actually remember the late '70s under Carter. It sucked, big-time. When you have a bunch of Iranian terrorists holding American citizens hostage for 444 days and you don't have the cojones to get them out or kick some butt, of course you're going to get voted out. It was my first election, and I was damn proud to send Mr. Peanut packing. And it wasn't just "America Held Hostage," it was a total and complete economic debacle, the Soviet Union ascendant and advancing on all fronts, etc., etc. Look up the term "misery index"; it actually MEANT something during the Carter years, with high unemployment and high inflation. Nothing that has happened in the past 7 years holds a candle to how bad it was under Carter.