Captain's Quarters Comments - Latest Comments in How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

unclesmrgol — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:02:56 -0000

But isn't it the American way to dispise the rich -- to not want to pay them more than you have to from your own pocket, and to deny them the "rightful" fruits of their labor?

Aren't you Canadians the same way?

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

psmarc93 — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:40:56 -0000

Unless you write for a living, invest in media, or work in media most people would only be interested in the strike because it sorta-kinda involves celebrities (sometimes). The short version is that the studios want writing for free -- and they've been getting it for free and make no apologies that they want it for free. Their legal argument has been -- the Internet doesn't make money, probably won't, so we don't need to pay you. Anyone in any profession can see through that lie.
I don't understand why one would need to compare the residuals of writers and directors since both have their own unions to determine their worth and compensation. The Writers' Guild only argues for the writers.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

naftali — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:37:58 -0000

You just opened a huge philosophical question--if someone is liberal because of his staff of writers, if the writers strike, is he still liberal?

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

jim — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:35:03 -0000

In the WGA's case, the union does neither. What the union does is set a basic level for negotiations to start from, that producers can not go beneath.

And producers will typically never give an *inch* from that starting point.

So, a writer who went into a producer's office just demanding a different contract to start with, would literally just get laughed out of the office. Let alone a star's contract.

And SAG also sets the base line, from which stars can demand more. Stars are more successful than writers in demanding more, because the public tends to care far more about actors than writers.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

jim — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:31:15 -0000

Yes, totally. However, Teresa's point is that without writers, there wouldn't be anything else.

You stated that this isn't true with the Sopranos, because David Chase told other writers concepts for each episode. I'm pointing out that David Chase is himself a writer - and thus, he's acting here as the de facto lead writer.

Yes, you're right; David Chase is credited as a producer. That's probably because he knows that if he merely credited himself as a writer he would simply get shafted.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Waldo — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:59:11 -0000

Since many people rely on The Daily Show as their main source of news and Jon Stewart's leaned Left, I wonder if the writer's strike will have an impact on the election.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Teresa — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:26:25 -0000

No it can't. Someone working at a factory making windshields is making
them all the same according to someone else's plans. It will not matter
if worker A or worker B is making the windshield. It will come out exactly the
same unless they are a real screw up.

Writing a TV show is very different. You have to produce new, original content
for each show. No script, no show.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

herddog505 — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:59:03 -0000

My Old Man worked for a union for most of his career as an airline engine mechanic. He HATED the union and not political reasons: it was a question of taking a chunk of his paycheck and giving damned little back except the occasional threat to take away his job if "the union" decided to go on strike.

A good friend of mine's father also worked in a union shop. He got fed up when one of his worthless coworkers - who should never have been hired in the first place - was caught redhanded stealing from the company. The union went to bat to get this guy his job back.

Unions have their uses and have done a lot to improve the lot of the working man in the past. However, in these days of OSHA, EEOC, and the other alphabet soup of government agencies that monitor and regulate the workplace, they don't have much use anymore.

But you're right about one thing: the fact that unions overwhelmingly give their members' dues to democrats (whether the members want it that way or not) doesn't exactly win them friends among conservatives.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Pam — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:33:21 -0000

So the union makes the talent? Or does the union stiffle the talent..

As for the contracts of the stars...if SAG were a player in them, why is there no uniformity to the contracts. SAG membership is required to be employed..SAG membership gets you voting privilages for awards...SAG does not negotiate your contract...

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Pam — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:26:41 -0000

David Chase owns the show, so no, he isn't classified as a writer. His background is writing, and he may have written some episodes, but when the credits roll, he is listed as a bigger player than the writers are.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

jim — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:26:17 -0000

Oh, and Buchwald won a settlement. Happy ending...

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

jim — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:23:08 -0000

The distributor's take probably figures in as the "cost" part of it, with everyone else getting a share of the remaining "profit".

I put "costs" and "profit" in quotes, because really we only have the studios' word for what that actually is.

A few years ago, writer Art Buchwald sued Paramount over "Coming to America", because they basically stole his idea and put another writer on it. He won in court, and Paramount then attempted to claim that "Coming to America" didn't actually make them any money (!!).

Paramount trotted out a lot of trumped-up costs going to foreign distributors and other things, which are impossible to verify without looking at the studios actual books...

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

jim — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:59:23 -0000

Sure, that would be nice. But without a union behind them, most writers would just get laughed off the set and blacklisted as a loon.

And one of the reasons that the star's contracts are so good, is because of the actor's union, SAG.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

jim — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:54:09 -0000

David Chase is a writer. Therefore he's a writer working with other writers. Writers are still creating the content.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

always right — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:40:31 -0000

How did you get the idea it is treated as Dem vs. Repub issue here? Majority of the commenters here understand the "issue" all right. I just don't think it worth too much of my sympathy. So others make a bigger cut (on DVDs), so what? Did your teachers tell you everything in "Life Is Fair" when you grew up?

It seems to me the out-of-work writers should hold the UNION guys to account, rather than try to garner public sympathy by whining. Don't tell me nobody knew this is coming until the contract expires, if the UNION can not and did not anticipate to negotiate better deal with the studios.

Tell your average writer's woes to any aspiring author who tries to sell his/her book(s).
If a writer does not make any money selling his/her stuff that year, time to seek alternatives. Or thank your spouse/parents/whoever to support your dream.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

naftali — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:19:19 -0000

Regarding caring. I care. I care in a fresh, new way, just like the big hit things I cared for before, and that were a hit caringwise for other people before. I care in a beach scene kind of way, a way with many beach scenes that lead to a car chase. Because I deeply care about car chases. I care because I think I can get Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson to care with me. And if I can get Kirsten Dunst to care with Cruise and Nicholson then I will really really care. But I am a caring person.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Rick Ellis — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:07:12 -0000

The comparison between the Writers Guild and other unions is a bit complex, since they all have slightly different deals.

When it comes to the primary issue that's on the table now--that writers don't get any money for anything that is streamed or offered for free downloads--the other participants are all in the same boat. No one gets any sort of residual or other payment. One of the reasons that NBC/Universal and Fox can launch something like Hulu.com is that they don't have to pay anyone any residuals for any of the programming.

With the DVD question, it's a lot more complicated. Generally speaking, no one gets all that much money. The Director's Guild (DGA) gets a better deal than most, but that's not saying much.

The way the DGA money (for instance) is that for movies that are made for theatrical release, or made for free or basic cable, the director receives 1.5% of Producer's gross under $1 million plus 1.8% of Producer's gross over $1 million. 80% of that goes to the director, 20% to the pension plan. For studios, Producer's gross is 20% of wholesale gross receipts.

I've been writing a lot about the strike, since we cover TV (and hey, we're also Minnesota-based).

Hope this helps a little bit.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Pam — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:02:25 -0000

If the business model is changing, shouldn't the writers change with it? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a writer go in with the same kind of contract that the star of the show goes in with...

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

JAT — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:02:11 -0000

I don't go to movies or watch TV, so I really don't care about this strike. However, we forget that these writers are part of a team that creates a product - that is all it is. And what they are saying is that every time some one buys this product they should get a cut. OK.

So why doesn't Dow Chemical get a cut every time some one's new heart valve opens and closes? After all they created the plastic that the valve is made from - why not get a cut?

Sorry I never understood residuals. I mean look at all the money Elvis Presley is still making and he is dead!

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Pam — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:56:09 -0000

the above comment was addressed to Jeff, not Dave.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Pam — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:55:07 -0000

Dave

I agree with you. These writers didn't sell their work under the promise of anything more than their contract called for. They chose to spread the wealth rather than be paid according to what each member contributed. ($4000 per member) Does the one hit wonder writer collect the same as a writer who had their work go into syndication?
Example: A writer for a show that lasted 4 episodes vs a writer from Seinfeld..

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

chatterbox — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:52:30 -0000

Your math is still wrong. You lowered the cost of the DVD without lowering the compensation writers receive, thus upping them to more than four cents per $15 (I'm actually not sure how you arrived at $72M as .04 per $15 works out to $64M). At .04 per $20 their share of $24B is $48M. Your revised number is still fully 50% higher than the actual compensation.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Dave Rywall — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:51:17 -0000

It appears you're commenting on a situation you're not very familiar with.

The Writers Guild contract expired on October 31, 2007.

This situation couldn't possibly have less to do with socialism. Duh.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Shawna Benson — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:37:51 -0000

I'm dismayed that so many people lack understanding of the issues involved. I am a conservative living in Hollywood, an aspiring TV writer, and believe me, I'm no union lover. But, consider the following:

* Not every writer sells work every year. Yes, there is the MBA (Minimum Basic Agreement) for works sold to studios, and many writers make more than the MBA on a screenplay sale, but often that screenplay is the result of a year or more in writing. The contracted minimum for a screenplay today is between $53,000 and $99,000. TV writers, who often only write one or two scripts in a season, can make up to $30,000 for an hour long episode (story and teleplay). Because staff writers are on salary, this is often counted against their salary. Meaning, that in order to make more than $50,000 a year, you'd have to write at least 2 TV scripts in full. Usually the only people making more than the minimums are the head writer (showrunner) who is also a producer and a handful of the exec-producer or co-producers.

* If a songwriter sells a song or a novelist publishes a book, should they not be compensated based on the sales of those works? TV and Film residuals are no different than the royalties other writers receive for their published works.

* Many TV shows today do not get re-run. 'LOST' episodes don't re-run well, and so the network has decided to run the episodes consecutively with no repeats. Without a repeated episode TV writers are not compensated as they used to be.

* Recording a program on a VCR is NOT like downloading or streaming on the internet. The networks sell the broadcast programs for advertising. Those advertising dollars are then used to pay the writers, actors, directors. The studios are selling advertising on streaming video and are selling shows directly to consumers on platforms such as iTunes. The writers receive NO COMPENSATION from these methods of sale. In short, the studios are keeping all of the profits from these distribution methods and are not paying writers at all. Nick Counter, the lead negotiator for the studios stated at the end of the contract talks that shows streamed online or available through paid download services were considered "promotional" and therefore not subject to the residual formulas for DVD, and they do not know how profitable the internet will be for them. By the studios own talking points to their shareholders, however, they sing a different tune.

* The $200,000 average is a misleading indicator of most writers. There are 12,000 Writers Guild members (and I'm not one of them), The MEAN income of a guild member is $4,000 a year. Yes, that means there is a very large distribution. There are the A-list writers who make a lot of money, there are writers making the minimum, and there are writers who aren't getting paid at all because they sold nothing in that calendar year.

* You may not watch a lot of scripted television today, but consider that the DVD formula applies to older shows you may watch and enjoy. 4 cents for every DVD sold. And that's for films. TV is an even more convoluted formula. Ken Levine, a writer on MASH and other shows, stated the following on his blog: "The producers say we already receive royalties from DVD sales. There are no less than fifteen box sets of TV series with my scripts in them. I haven’t received a dime. I have gotten $0.19 from American Airlines for showing eight of my episodes on maybe 10,000 flights."

Sorry for the long post, but this isn't a Dem vs. Republican issue. And it isn't a 'big evil corporations' issue, as some would frame it. The business model is changing, and what you are seeing is an industry that is grasping desperately at the remains of the old way of business. As far as the new way go, they fear making a deal with talent to share the wealth, because of uncertainty as to how much wealth they will have. The writers are looking at this form a standpoint of "Won't Be Fooled Again." In 1985 the studios pleaded with the unions that they didn't know how much money was to be made from home VIDEO. They promised that if the guilds agreed to a lower residual rate on video, they would 'make good' on it at some point in the future. 20 years later, the writers, actors and directors are still waiting.

Re: How Many People Care About The Writers Guild Strike?

Jeff — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:33:33 -0000

Dave

The writer's gave their power of negotiation to the Writer's Guild, the Writer's Guild negotiated a contract for the writers to be paid x per unit. If they are still getting x per unit, then they are not being ripped off by the industry, they were ripped of by the Guild which did not negotiate on their behalf very well.

I assume the 1988 contract was not opened ended and had a date set for renegotiation. If that is the case they should a) Suck it up until then, or b) ditch the Writer's Guild and negotiate for each project themselves, that way they could get what they think/actually are worth. If it is indeed open ended then they are bigger fools then I or anyone else thinks and deserve whatever happens because of that stupidity.

Unions were long since taken over by socialists and because of this see Jazz's comment.