Captain's Quarters Comments - Latest Comments in Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Lethologica — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:08:26 -0000

"I could care less but I knew I could get you guys going."

Folks, this is the heart and soul of a troll. Unwilling to have productive discussion, but perfectly happy to screw with a blog by rehashing the same unproductive arguments again and again and again. Moreover, he is doing it FOR THE SAKE OF SCREWING WITH THE BLOG. As someone who is seeking merely to p*** people off rather than actually have a discussion, norm does not deserve to be replied to. I submit that CQ commenters should simply ignore norm until he has established a record of non-troll posting, or alternatively that all replies to norm's trolling be sarcastic one-liners along the lines of MarktheGreat's "Clinton or Carter?" below.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

harleycon5 — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:40:03 -0000

The formation of the Superdelegate system was intended to stop far-Left movements such as the McGovern candidacy. Who would have thought that 2 far Left candidates would be running at the same time? I guess it just shows how far out the Democrats have moved.

If Obama loses, it will surely be noted that even Superdelegates could not stop the party's reprehensible seachange of lunacy.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Steve Z — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:21:28 -0000

It's a good thing that SCOTUS ended the charade of endless
recounts in Florida in 2000, and they could intervene, because
the Presidency is a Federal election. We saw what happens when
SCOTUS doesn't intervene, in Washington State, where Dino Rossi
was slightly ahead, and they kept doing recounts and "finding"
new votes until Democrat Christine Gregoire was slightly ahead,
then everybody stops counting. Some people (Dino Rossi and his
supporters) might be wondering who cast the newly "found" votes and
when (on or after Election Day), and did these people vote more than once?

Since Democrats run Washington State, and SCOTUS couldn't
intervene in a state election, we'll never know.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

N. O'Brain — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:51:39 -0000

So, if Hillary can bribe enough of the super delegates, she wins anyway?

Boy, is that gonna tick off your average black voter.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Steve Z — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:42:52 -0000

To be honest, the nominating processes of both parties have lots of unfairness in them, but there's more in the Democrat party than in the Republican party.

In the Republican party, there are some "winner-take-all" primaries in big states like NY, FL, NJ, and MO, which give a disproportionate number of delegates, and a competitor needs to win "proportional" states by a lopsided margin to make up for a narrow loss in "winner take all" states. Rudy Giuliani tried to "game the system" by having "winner-take-all" primaries in states where he was strong, only his candidacy faded out too fast, and McCain ended up sweeping them to the nomination.

Both parties have unfairness in the allocation of delegates between caucus states and primary states. In caucus states, a comparatively small number of dedicated zealots can win more delegates than a large number of voters in primary states, and Barack Obama won lopsided margins of delegates in small, "red" caucus states like ND, KS, ID, and Alaska, where only about 400 votes were cast in the entire Democrat caucus! But could Obama ever win in the general election in such overwhelmingly Republican states?

The Democrats have more unfairness with their "super-delegates", some of whom were elected by states or Congressional districts, but some were "selected" as leaders of special-interest groups favorable to Democrats. We hear Obama denouncing special-interest groups, but he might need their leaders to get the nomination--that should be interesting! Another wild card: who will get Edwards' delegates? Will they be needed at the convention to decide the winner?

Then come those famous "punished primaries" in FL and MI. Clinton probably shouldn't get the Michigan delegates, since she ran essentially unopposed, but what about the 1.7 million Democrats who voted in a competitive primary in Florida--should they be disenfranchised by the party of "count every vote (for Gore) in Florida"? Why is running an early primary a sin in Florida but not in South Carolina or New Hampshire? Florida and Michigan represent 44 electoral votes, or about 8.2% of the national total. That can easily swing an election, but will the Democrat Party ignore them when selecting their nominee? Will the Florida Supreme Court nominate Hillary for the Democrat party?

There is unfairness all over the Democratic nomination system, in many different directions, and it's not democratic. Leave it to the designers of such Rube Goldberg rules to figure it out!

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

norm — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:16:53 -0000

actually what happened amounted to appointment because there was no time issue. but if it makes you happier to make personal attacks have at it.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Laz Gonzalez — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:05:37 -0000

Yes, you are right, just take a look what's in going on in Cuba.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

123MarkW — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:58:54 -0000

In other words, you prefer lying to accurate dialog.

No wonder you are a liberal.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

123MarkW — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:56:48 -0000

In reality, it was 7 justices that stopped Gore. 5 felt that there was not enough time left to order a 16th recount.

The justices followed the clear dictates of the constitution. I realize that as a liberal, this comes as a shock to you, but the court is supposed to follow the Constitution, not the NYT.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

123MarkW — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:55:08 -0000

Clinton or Carter?

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

123MarkW — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:54:41 -0000

You're going to have to get used to this, but out here in the real world we can recognize that the voters elected Bush. The courts by a vote of 7 to 2, stopped Gore from trying to steal it.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

always_right — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:24:25 -0000

However, the precedence had been set. Gore will go down history for this infamy.
Not for his Nobel piece price, his oscar, or his quasi-religion.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Kevin71 — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:13:13 -0000

Couldn't agree more.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Kevin71 — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:54:51 -0000

Carter?

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

SaipanDrunkenSailor — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:44:55 -0000

I forgot just how much I despised Al Gore for contesting his obvious loss.

It's good America was saved from a Gore Presidency. Thinks aren't rosy now, but I'm positive things would be much worse now if that mentally ill jackass had managed to steal the Presidency.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

TJM — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:40:45 -0000

By the way, isn't this column duplicative of Gerry Ferraro's of the other day?

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

rbj — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:24:36 -0000

The difference between Democrats and out and out State Socialists: Democrats will at least pretend that the common people have a voice in who their representatives will be, unless, of course, their choice is so bad that their betters have to step in and make sure that the people vote the "correct" way.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

TJM — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:26:50 -0000

Amen!

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

The Ace — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:15:33 -0000

"and a president appointed by a court"

Uh, we've had no Presidents "appointed" by any courts. Ever.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Lokki — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:07:45 -0000

I'm amused at Norm's attempt to draw attention away from the discussion at hand by fighting the war before last all over again.

I'm even more amused by the discomfort that the Democratic Party finds itself in. I really, really hope that Hillary wins the call at the convention.

Having said that, as a conservative, I believe that the parties have the perfect right to choose their candidate in any manner they see fit, be it by popular vote, spitting in the air, or counting sheep.

I only hope that they can't find a way to stop the blood-letting before August.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

TJM — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:56:59 -0000

Bottom line: Hillary is a terrible candidate with a tin ear. She hasn't the political talents of her
"husband." I too find it ironic that the Democratic Party is actually run by its elites and the mainstream media. The Dems were for the "popular vote" in 2000 when that would elect Al Gore and they were for the electoral college in 2004 when they thought it would
elect Monsieur Kerry. Consistency thou art a jewel.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

SaipanDrunkenSailor — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:27:56 -0000

A good marketing trick is to name or market a product by what it most severely lacks.

For example, I used to buy a cheap beer in steel 16oz. cans by the case for $5. It was basically bottom of the barrel Iron City and it was called "Old German".

The beer's slogan was, "The World Knows No Finer".

So if the Democrat Party were a beer, it would be Olde Democrat - "America Knows No Finer".

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

madmax333 — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:15:37 -0000

So it would have better for the very liberal Fla. supreme court to change state electiion laws so that algore's minions could keep counting until they got the result they wanted, declare victory and deify the Goracle? Nevermind that democrat lower courts even found the ex post facto rules changes abhorrent. You far left bozos will complaint about 2000 forever. Ok for the mutant talking heads on network to declare algore winner early in Fla. even before the polls in panhandle were closed. Don't know why I bother after all these years, liberals believe in making their own ever-changing rules and are strangers to any logical thought. Now give us some ad hominem attacks about the evil Bu$hitler and stealing elections. Oh, tell us voter ID is no good too, but preventing counting of military votes is fine? Personally I am very glad that a number of Jewish voters in Palm Beach were too stupid to figure out the democrat party butterfly ballot and proceeded to vote for Pat Buchanan. Call it divine intervention. Libs are lame for sure.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

Bookworm — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:53:33 -0000

This whole thing reminds me of the elections in Europe over the EU Constitution. The EU had been functioning with the elite managing the whole thing. They then placed their Constitution before the voters, confident that the voters would rubber stamp the elites' decisions. To their surprise, the voters did not do so -- and the elites responded by discounting the voters and announcing that they would go forward regardless with their plans. The further left one moves, the less faith the party hierarchy has in the people it purports to represent.

Re: Superdelegates: Because The Establishment Is Smarter Than The Voters

norm — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:44:33 -0000

actually by a vote of 7-2, the court held that floridas method for recounting ballots was unconstitutional, and by a vote of 5-4 the court held that no alternative method could be established within the time limits established by the florida legislature.
7 years later i could care less but i knew i could get you guys going.
and in case you wondered...i know capitols.