Captain's Quarters Comments - Latest Comments in The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Bill — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 07:45:37 -0000

There is also the scenario of Obama winning narrowly only because Florida and Michigan delegates have not been seated. I live in Florida and there is talk on the news that Democrats here may revote or hold a caucus before the convention.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

davesummit — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:24:34 -0000

I'd say for the first time reading this board (and finding an inordinate amount of smart, respectful commentary), Bogey is your top guy for the rational voice from the other side. Good show. This former GOPer might just come back.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

GinJ — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:39:18 -0000

"With only 22 states, D.C., Guam, and the U.S. Virgin Islands left to vote after Super Tuesday...."

You forgot Puerto Rico. It has a more delegates than South Carolina and they're not proportional - that'll make it very important.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Nathan — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:45:29 -0000

Pity Obama doesn't stand up to the extremists in the Dems: MoveOn.org, Daily Kos, Ted Kennedy

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Nathan — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:42:16 -0000

Florida and Michigan delegates should have their votes re-instated. Run their primaries over again if they want. The problem for the Dems is not so much if Clinton wins, but if Obama wins the nomination. A lot of conservative, moderate and mainstream Democrats will vote for McCain as Obama is too liberal and inexperienced in national politics, and has been backed by all the fringe elements of leftist politics: Daily Kos, MoveOn.org, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Howard Dean and inevitably Al Gore. GOP'ers might be complaining about McCain now, but when Obama is the nominee hispanics and centrists will move strongly to him, as will security moms.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

sas — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:48:46 -0000

It could work the other way too.

The only way out of this mess is to do two things:
1. Seat the delegates from Florida and Michigan,
2. Have a dream Ticket - Obama/Clinton or vice versa

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Max McGloin — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:55:29 -0000

The Clintons are runing a campaign, Obama is leading a movement. These Super Delagates mostly have job through elections. The blowback would be massive.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

DB M — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:30:19 -0000

Not all Republicans, of course. This one voted for Obama.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

mmaslan — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:49:30 -0000

The obvious alternative to the Democratic nightmare scenario circulating today is for Clinton and Obama to team up. They would be formidable together. It may be our only hope.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Phil Weingart — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:27:33 -0000

I was replying to jharp. Sorry for the confusion.

Re sheisters: I was actually in the real estate business for a couple years recently, and while I met plenty of dishonest mortgage salesmen, I never met a single one who would steer people to a bad loan who could have obtained a good one. The most common mischief -- really, the only mischief I saw -- was falsifying loan application documents by omitting items that mortgage lenders would have immediately flagged as a problem.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

captained — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:13:05 -0000

Good post. I'd consider both you and Chris Bowers among the rational voices on the other side. Open Left is a great site for you.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Jazz — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:01:21 -0000

Right Back atcha Ed.

http://www.openleft.com/sho...

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Ralph Phelan — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:32:34 -0000

I don't assume there are a great deal of Republicans in my district,
I sure wouldn't want to be president with her as my VP! I don't want to wake up dead in a DC park of apparent suicide.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Tom W — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 07:53:32 -0000

YES, the grapes were probably sour anyway.

No point in jumping further.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

daveinboca — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 05:51:19 -0000

My guess from McAuliffe's comment is that Obama will be invited to the Big House as the Veep candidate to step and fetch it for the Clinton Inc. crowd. If he succumbs to the apple of temptation, the Dems might avoid a catastrophe.

But the Clinton lust for power is insatiable.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Blacksmith — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:40:00 -0000

Burford, thank you for the "Venture Bros." quote. Made my day. No, really.

Regards the meat of your comment though, I couldn't give a tin piece WHY some poor kids (or usually, well-off adults) choose to become terrorists. Or "freedom fighters," or soldiers, or any other form of combatant. Let me make this next point perfectly clear.

The instant they kill Americans, for any reason or none, then as far as I am concerned, their lives are forfeit.

If they do so by the rules of warfare, then the rules are known, agreed to ahead of time, and we'll adhere to them. May the best fighter win. If they decide to ignore the various international rules (such as, for instance, by fighting without a uniform, fighting without state support, deliberately targeting noncombatants, etc) then they've determined the scope and nature of the conflict, and we shall abide by that decision as well.

Combat is not a place where you try to prove that you're "better" by some nebulous standard than your opponent, unless you truly believe that might makes right.

Combat is a state of being that we try to escape from as swiftly as possible by utterly destroying the opponent's desire to continue the conflict. The technical term would be to "neutralize" them. In the past, this was usually done by killing as many of them as possible in as short a time as possible. Modern advances have made it possible to "neutralize" would-be opponents by nonlethal means (such as pointing out that opposition force has directly killed far, FAR more fence-sitters than our own actions have).

Personally, I like the modern way a lot better. Less destruction makes it easier for a return to normality (or better, as the case may be). But if pressed, and the new ways stop working for whatever reason, the old ways still work. God willing, we'll never be required to use them again.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Bogey — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:49:49 -0000

I'm not disagreeing with you. re banks. etc.

and I don't think regulation would have helped much.

only from the standpoint of sheisters steering stupid people to loans/mortgages that were disadvantegous to them, even though they could qualify for better terms.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

A democrat — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:41:48 -0000

The democratic party does owe the Clintons in my opinion, and I'm not happy with the way this race has gone the way of attack ads and personal insults over what is the right kind of experience considering the small and untested amount of his own. Obama has my vote against any republican but he needs to stop acting like an upstart and putting the entire party in a snit. With hate crimes up 8% nationally last year, (remember the incident over the hanging tree?) I'm not at all convinced Obama can win a national contest and avoid going out like Harold Ford.

What do Obama supporters have against 8 years of peace and prosperity anyways? The Clintons have a tested record of people power and should be recognized for it.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Bogey — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:15:10 -0000

btw you'd only see the terms of SIXTEEN or more percent if you read the fine print.

the main print almost made it seem like a money "giveaway".

Embarrassing.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Bogey — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:12:25 -0000

what I do remember is that several years ago, the so called "subprime mortgage" business was SUCH a good business, that everyone was scrambling to get into it.... major banks were buying up companies to get into it, because the profits were so rich (because of what could only be called "usurious" interest rates" charged to stupid people who took them).

and it was a fantastic business, until it turned out it became harder and harder to squeeze so much water from a rock.

I'd be happier if more of these "businesses" (and banks that whipped/supported them) went completely bankrupt.

I remember constantly getting letters/offers for loans a couple of years ago (when my credit temporarily slipped, although not by much due to a fake thing on my credit report which I later had eliminated)

every day I was getting offers from these "bidnessmen" offering me loans at SIXTEEN (or more) percent, when Prime Rate was sitting at FIVE.

it's crap like that gives capitalism a very bad face.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Bogey — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:06:31 -0000

I don't believe that has anything to do with it.

There have been derivatives markets in mortgages going back to the late 1980's. Lewie Ranieri started it with Salomon Bros (read the book Liar's Poker - one of the funniest books you will read)

and IO's and PO's and CDO's have been bundled, sliced, trade and sold for quite some time now.

I do NOT believe that a weakening/lessening of the loan criteria had much of anything to do with those financial instruments.

most things that drive bad loans are
a) greed
b) complacency

when things get whipped up into a frenzy and a place goes "boom", everyone tried to get in on it.

so many historical e.g. Dutch tulip craze and most recently, Latin America and Asia in 1990's, then Russia, then dotcom, now realestate.

btw. the real estate bubble bursting will also now take shape in Great Britain, Ireland and Spain, places in Europe where those markets also went goofy.

at least those people didn't borrow/live off their "paper" equity.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Steve_o — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:49:32 -0000

"Or will Hillary and Bill lean heavily on them, call in their chits, and fracture the party on the chance that they could unite it afterwards? Given the Clintonian attraction to power, I'd call the latter scenario a lot more likely."

For tonight at least, Cap'n Ed is Cap'n Obvious.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Bogey — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:48:16 -0000

btw.
I'm beginning to think McCain will HAVE to make Huckabee the VP.

this will not heal all the fissures in the party.

but seems to me it'll heal many/most of them.

Willard isn't the answer.

there is no answer, there can only be the best possible "solution".

and that's probably McCain/Huckabee.

I like both guys (though Mike's creationism and "life amendment" fanaticism terrifies the crap out of me)

strange mix... but perhaps the most potent one.

but there's something else at work here.

the "Reagan Coalition" was created because of a vast distaste for the status quo, often bringing together disparate elements (fiscal conservatives and social conservatives, for e.g.) for a common goal.

to get rid of the STATUS QUO.

this is another "get rid of status quo" election.

The GOP IS the status quo.

Ergo, what will logically follow is not so much as a strengthening of this disparate "coalition", but its dissipation.

which is probably what is happening.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Bogey — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:42:02 -0000

it is and indeed will be a topic of spirited debate.

Re: The Coming Meltdown For The Democrats

Peejz — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:36:21 -0000

I am not trying to defend the Clintons, but it appears I am. The DNC st up these rules with super delegates. Hillary got her super delegates. Why should the rules, set forth by the DNC not play out? As I noted way up near the top..the DNC had those rules available on line, up until this week..IMO, it looks like they don't want to answer for their rules..I hate doing this, but Hillary got her super delegates, why shouldn't she capitalize on them and why shouldn't the DNC be exposed for the frauds they are?

The Clintons didn't write these rules, nor did Howard Dean, but they are the rules and it looks like Dean has some explaining to do..